Mike Michelini - Cross-Border Summit, Look back on 400+ Podcast Episodes, Managing Multiple Projects

Zack Franklin: 0:02

Welcome to another episode of the Zach Franklin show. Today we are here with my good friend, mike Michelini. This guy is a Shenzhen OG. He helped me connect with basically the entire community right when I started stuff in Shenzhen. We've gone to each other's events tons of times and on this time, coming back into China, we took the bus up together from Hong.

Mike Michelini: 0:29

Kong Mike is a content machine.

Zack Franklin: 0:34

This guy has put out more than 400 podcasts, dozens of websites. He has been involved with everything from domains and domainer and now he's got the handshake protocol type stuff. So check out his podcast about. He's done huge events. We're talking hundreds of people all day and some really, really good connections and super connections from that.

Zack Franklin: 1:03

So we're going to talk about he's bringing it back for the fifth time for the Cross-Border Summit round five in Chiang Mai, thailand. We both have spent a lot of time in Thailand, a lot of time in China. We're going to talk about the differences, the communities and what's going on there. So if you're choosing between Thailand and China for either manufacturing or Amazon community and stuff, this is going to be a good one for you. We're going to talk because we both I don't want to say shiny object syndrome, but we get excited by kind of the opportunity out there and we love to kind of take a lot on, maybe sometimes more than we can shoe, and do multiple projects. Mike and I kind of have some different approaches to this because Mike is, he possesses some superpowers. Mike is probably one of the most consistent people I've ever met in my life. People have described him as solid as a rock, and so I think this is going to be a good one, and welcome to the show.

Mike Michelini: 2:09

Well, you got me. You got me in full action. Great intro, buddy. Thanks so much, zach. It's a pleasure to be here.

Zack Franklin: 2:16

Yeah, So tell us about this upcoming summit round five cross border. Let's get into it.

Mike Michelini: 2:25

Should we call it annual? I mean, there was a huge gap because of COVID. But fifth, the fifth one, we say annual the posters.

Zack Franklin: 2:32

Yeah, i mean COVID was kind of this time bubble outside of like real life. So we don't, we don't need to count.

Mike Michelini: 2:39

So, yeah, i guess fifth annual, but it hasn't happened since November, October and Since November 2019 you are there in Guangzhou, but this will be in about five months, as this is recording November 16th and 17, two full days here in Tsegma, thailand, where I'm currently a base, as you know, and you know it'll be the first time outside of China. We did the first four 2016, 17, 18, 19 in China, three of them in Ten Jan, one in Guangzhou. This would be the first down here in Thailand. Similar format, like 150 total people between speakers and attendees, high value you'll be sharing there. I can't wait to have you there and others.

Mike Michelini: 3:23

People always say they like it. It's different than the larger events. Of course, it's still a rather large event, but we purposely don't want it to be like multiple thousands of people. We like it to be where you can talk to the speakers and we have application. You have to be either a current member of GFA VIP or apply to attend. We really work to have it really high quality people.

Mike Michelini: 3:47

It's about the networking. It's about the relationships, because, of course, there's all these online events. Literally, i just check Facebook and there's some AI summit happening right now and there's always these online. We want to keep the value of the in-person is through the networking and the high value of the speakers and the experience, of course, after parties and networking throughout the event. And we've worked on it for five months to go. We've worked on it almost, of course, even in the back of our mind since COVID days like when we're going to do next summit. But I think we also waited. I think we finally confirmed after China opened, when you and I crossed the border. I think that's when we decided, because we really want to welcome the Chinese community, to come. This can be an experiment, but some of our friends will come from China, of course, you, but even if I think everyone wants to go to Thailand, especially around that time of year, I mean that's why.

Mike Michelini: 4:47

It's a great time to do it.

Zack Franklin: 4:48

yeah, The whole world is there at that time of year because everyone wants to be somewhere warm and sunny with palm trees. Whether you're at the beach or in the jungle riding elephants in Chiang Mai, there's a lot to do there.

Zack Franklin: 5:06

I'm really excited about it, mike, your conferences are honestly. I go to hundreds of events, you know this. We've been to a ton of events together. Yours are some of the highest quality, with a lot of the speakers that I actually either want to hear from or go drinking with. Yeah, i don't know if I can say this or not, so I'll say one of the Amazon speakers from last time we took them out drinking until 6am and he had to speak at 9am.

Mike Michelini: 5:38

I think I know him.

Zack Franklin: 5:40

You remember who I'm talking about, but the connections that I made at Cross-Border Summit have lasted through the years and through COVID and stuff like that. It's a super high quality event with really high quality both speakers, but also just the audience.

Zack Franklin: 5:56

I've had people in your audience that now have brands doing more than like $10 million a month. The guy in Singapore. It will give you immediately a super high quality network in global from Asia. So not just in China, but wherever you want to be doing business here you have people doing. You had Glenn from doing food and beverage imports. I mean you had Brian Johnson come like PPC, you had Anthony Lee, howard, tai me. You have all kinds of people doing some cool stuff. That's one of the things I really like about global from Asia is that you're not just Amazon, even though you do a lot of Amazon. It's really all kinds of crazy import, export, sourcing, food and beverage advertising. You had the people from Choson or something. The WeChat guy.

Zack Franklin: 6:57

It will really open your mind to tons of different topics. What kind of goes on behind the scenes throwing an event of this size together because it doesn't look super easy, but you always pull it off every year. So what is?

Mike Michelini: 7:13

this like.

Mike Michelini: 7:15

I think, of course, maybe a little bit bigger of a challenge is restarting after COVID, because there was always when do we start again? or there's even the thought are we going to do it again? So much the world has changed. But just deciding it, i try to. It's even more than six months, but I try to release, start planning before six months. But I think the other trick is, once you get the first momentum going, you almost pick the next year's date at this event, so I'm already thinking about 2024. And then either you know some people pre-sell we haven't done that before, we might do that this time but or at least get the word out, get the momentum.

Mike Michelini: 8:02

But I really try to integrate it into, like the content. Like you know, we talk about our podcast, our meetups. We, you know, have the banner behind me. I carry that system meetups here. We talk about it in the shows, we interview the guests, we interview even some of the guests they're gonna be podcast guests We were talking to. We were really trying to know them. But basically, like I told some others they've asked me this to our organizers and friends, we just integrated into into the community. It's like just integrated. It's in the show it's in the contents and the emails. It's like we we are, and that's why it was a little bit harder to kind of restart it, because we were canceling it, like we even had some dates for 2020. Luckily, we didn't put money down And then, once you get the play, it's basically the big chunk is the venue right Locking?

Zack Franklin: 8:50

in the venue.

Mike Michelini: 8:52

They might let you hold it without money, but usually to really kind of promote it, especially in Thailand And be tough, and you know.

Zack Franklin: 9:01

you know every small thing that you don't think about at these events cost a crazy amount of money at these venues. stuff like the coffee, the Wi-Fi, like for the world I think it costs $30,000 a day just for the air conditioning. So all this sort of planning and stuff is absolutely crazy. So I'm glad people do it all.

Mike Michelini: 9:27

Yeah, and then you know, you know it's true, like most event organizers, we don't make money directly from the events. That's why usually they are, honestly, i don't have that exactly, but you know, sometimes they have like membership or they have a software or they have a marketplace. Like you know, amazon themselves will do events and others, but when it's event by itself as a product, it's usually not going to kind of like be too profitable. So but of course there's some sponsors confirming you know it's actually not fully confirmed, but most likely it'll be a couple of good people sponsoring And of course they help really kind of bootstrap the venue and maybe some other costs.

Mike Michelini: 10:12

And then of course, there's the pressure. There's the two sides of pressure. Right, you got to get good people, you got to make sure you fill space, make sure you get good content, speakers, things like that. So but yeah, i mean it's stressful, but it's kind of like if we integrate into our workflow, it's like we talk about it in our content and our community and it's just build it up and people are you know like.

Mike Michelini: 10:43

So we just look forward to getting this one going because kind of like a restart after it's been four years. You believe that It's just 2021, 22, 23, right, 19. I don't want to think about it. That was four years ago. since the last one, that's like almost graduating like high school or college, right Like four years.

Zack Franklin: 11:00

Yeah, i don't want to think about how long it's been. It's kind of crazy, but you know. so these are the events on the big scale. Let's talk about events on kind of a smaller scale. Both you and me have done tons of kind of I don't want to say micro events, because they still get a lot of people out. I think that they're pretty important in maintaining kind of a local community. You've been to some of my marketing meetups in Shenzhen.

Zack Franklin: 11:27

And then now you're doing events out in Thailand, so let's kind of talk about these, their role in kind of, in kind of local community. Should more people do this? Tell us about the kind of the Chiang Mai FBA scene, sure.

Mike Michelini: 11:46

So again, it was like another pre-COVID, post-covid thing, right, like they were happening in Chiang Mai. I was supporting and co-organizing for a bit I think you would come to some before COVID But of course, obviously everything stopped during COVID. Anything offline in person, so, you know, when I came back here, people were asking about it. There was, you know, very. We had some groups still existing where they were asking is there more meetups, meetups happening? So I finally like I think it was like a new year resolution, like you know, 2023. In January we started doing them again, found a venue. We've actually tried a few different venues. Now Also, there's obviously new people here that weren't here before, because I was living here for about a year and a half or two before COVID And then those people left. You know they're not coming back. They're like because a lot of people here are nomads, right, like everywhere, expats. So it's like a whole new couple of different people helping me support the meetups. You know, like other sellers or enthusiasts. So, like guys named Daniel, he says you know about he has an ice bath at his house. So we started to have an ice bath to talk about planning the event And you know it's the challenge. You know, i think you might agree.

Mike Michelini: 13:02

The real bigger challenge outside of China is everybody uses so many different apps. There's like a WhatsApp group, a Telegram group, a Facebook group. Of course there's still a WeChat group. There's like a group. There's event people. I use eventbride or meetupcom or an email, and then you like, promote the meetup And they're like oh, i didn't see it. I'm like you didn't see it. We put it on like eight channels, you know like, but then all these algorithms don't show organic posts anymore, right, even if you're, they don't show it right, like?

Zack Franklin: 13:33

you got to like. The dirty secret of meetups is that the most effective outreach strategy is really just to message everyone like the day of the event, like yo yeah, i'm gonna say like I sit on that couch And I'm like, yo, i want to see you tonight, let's do it.

Zack Franklin: 13:51

Yeah, and that's still like I mean it's annoying to have to do that when you wish, like, oh, people could just show up. But I think it's like yeah, it's. It's the dirty secret to having a successful meetup is that little personal invitation the day of and say, hey, like you know, i want to see you at this event And it works. But yeah, promoting stuff in China is so much easier. You know you're right. But also like, because we have the WeChat group chats here, which are very easy and people can just scan a QR code, then they're in a group. Then you just say, hey, we're doing the event, it's in two days, it's tomorrow, it's today, it's in two hours, it's now come out And it works so well to get tons of people out. And people in Shenzhen really want to go out and like, talk about stuff and, and you know, meet with people every day. But you know, doing the same thing in Bangkok, people are like, oh, i'm on Telegram, i'm on Instagram, i'm on.

Zack Franklin: 14:56

Facebook, you know, there's no big group chat And it makes it very difficult to actually put together the type of meetups. But I think that there's a lot of benefits in doing the meetups, both for the host, for the attendees, for the venue, for everyone involved. And these kind of things are just really important to maintaining kind of a cohesive community. And you know, i like to do mine every two to three weeks, just because that's the point where people like see each other frequently enough, they're not forgetting each other's names, they're like you know, making plans together like, oh, let's hang out, let's do this sort of business, let's do this.

Zack Franklin: 15:36

And I find that the frequency of how often you hold meetups is kind of the key. I agree, Like you know, like startup grind here in Shenzhen, they used to do like one Chinese meetup, then one English meetup, then one Chinese meetup, then one English meetup every month, and so what would happen would be it would end up going two months without seeing anybody from the English crowd. So every time you're like kind of remember you, what were you doing?

Mike Michelini: 16:09

Also just a habit, right, just a habit to know when it is. So we're actually trying to do a weekly. Now We were doing every other week, but the last couple we decided to do weekly just because it's almost easier. I don't know if I know it's more work, but it's easier for marketing because people just know it's Tuesday. We do a Tuesdays two to four PM. We had this had a couple days ago. So there's no like is it this week, is it next week, is it two weeks from now? Because then we have to kind of like rile up everybody or you know kind of like remind everybody.

Mike Michelini: 16:42

So now it seems to be working to keep it going.

Mike Michelini: 16:48

So we're trying weekly And we're even trying to have a little bit of a skill share. So we are testing it, but I'm hoping to keep it consistent enough. But you know, we had Rebecca she's from the UK, she was sharing about outsourcing to the Philippines at the space And but yeah, like you said, it keeps it, just keeps the like a heartbeat, you know it keeps it, keeps it a lot, keeps it going Because, if you like, like we just did a cross border summit once a year you know it doesn't keep that momentum and that excitement And then it's still so fun because it's like I know, you two, we always need somebody's new that we didn't know. Right, like, even as organizers, there's always somebody there that comes that I didn't know. And you know it's pretty, it's pretty fun.

Mike Michelini: 17:37

And I've been noticing, though in Thailand is less. We try to encourage the local sellers or local business. Locals generally come, but they're much more shy, I feel, maybe because of language, or whereas I feel like in China there's much more like Chinese that come to these events and meetups. Are they like maybe networking more or there?

Zack Franklin: 18:02

I would say mine are now like half Chinese, half foreigners. It's pretty good, and I've had people following me on WeChat for years from stuff like I went to like a Toastmasters out all the way in Longan like six years ago, And one of the guys from that became an Amazon seller, saw my post even though it was six years ago, and then went to the meetup and he's like yo, i'm here, hey, we're at this thing.

Zack Franklin: 18:28

So, it's super, super fun. Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about kind of the Amazon community in Chiang Mai. A lot of people that might find this one through search or something you know. Chiang Mai used to be seen as kind of like the digital nomad capital of the planet. You're on the ground now. Tell us a little bit how things are going there. What kind of people are moving in doing some work, what are people very active there now or people more dispersed throughout Thailand and the world? Did Mexico take the top spot? I don't know. What are you seeing?

Mike Michelini: 19:09

So I have to full disclosure that you don't hear them now, but I do have two kids and that changes a little bit for my being as active in the local community because I spent time with them. But I think you've visited me pre-COVID here and I'm like 20, i'm in Hangdong, so I'm like 20 minutes down by drive. But like I do go for the meet-ups, i go to some other meet-ups and I course meeting people Through those and just hearing. But it's also a seasonal place. Chiang Mai There's a horrible thing called the smoky or burning season I'm not sure I think you know about that where they burn the crops in the north of Thailand.

Mike Michelini: 19:48

So it kind of likes people leave around February and They kind of come back in April, may, but then there's like summer. So now we're in summer and people are on like summer Holiday if they're like teachers or just not that many years here, but it does seem like even others or the kids are off school so they travel. If they have kids, they travel. So, like you said earlier, there's the high season, like. Well, that's why we one reason we picked November for cross-border summit was the peak season of tourism and travel, and enjoying Thailand, i think in general is like end of summer until like Early you know, maybe January That's kind of like people travel season in Thailand, because not just burning season but just all overall it just seems like it's the best weather.

Zack Franklin: 20:36

There's also rain, yeah, yeah.

Mike Michelini: 20:41

So we can feel it. Yeah, we can feel it picking up now And the meet-ups are getting more busy. That's what we're kind of going to weekly. But it's a very interesting place, like I'm already seeing. Like I have to plan to kind of stop during burning season, Like one or two months or somehow. I'm already thinking out of a just for that. You know we we also even left during that. You know it's pretty rough. I know I thought I had pollution experience with China, But but it's a different kind of smokey.

Zack Franklin: 21:09

Yeah, for an instance worse, I mean. I'm working out the window. It's a beautiful blue sky. It's not really good.

Mike Michelini: 21:18

Yeah, shenzhen's pollution is really Almost not even existing anymore, but even when I was there I didn't even was kind of maybe something bad, or even other parts of China. It's a different kind of thickness of the PM. I forget what's called PMI, i think 2.5 or Yeah, it's a thicker one, that kind of like I think it. It irritates your Nasal system so you get even I get like a hair headache and you have air filters, so So it's kind of interrupts, interrupts the nomads.

Mike Michelini: 21:49

You know, like these nomads they fly to Bali or they fly even the South Thailand or they leave because, like You know, like we have common friends, like Gerard, he goes here and it was getting kind of bad in February And I met him for coffee and he's like, yeah, i gotta get out of here, bernie. Season is too, too rough, so that really affects the community. But it seems like in I also don't have experience. Like you know, we're trying. I'm like a China guy like you and in China expats Maybe they go to Hong Kong for visa runs, but in Thailand and Southeast Asia There's this bigger visa run.

Mike Michelini: 22:23

Like I'm in groups. They're like I'm doing a visa run to Miramar wants to go me, i'm doing a visa run to KL, who wants to go me? But so there's always this in and out. Like there's just no stability. Like even other I go to, I go to web3 meetups and there's an organizer and he's like, yeah, i'm organizing for the next couple months, but I'm gonna be moving to Europe Like permanently, so somebody else was to organize. It's like so, so fluid. Like people, everything is just.

Zack Franklin: 22:48

I guess that's maybe you know Life, you know in general is it's changing, but here it's just like hyper Just feels like it's constantly and the visa situation got a lot harder for expats in general in Thailand, you know, even for me and all my issues. That's why I can go back in November, but if you had it right now I don't think I could go back.

Mike Michelini: 23:10

No, well, good timing then.

Zack Franklin: 23:13

So great timing on that. But, yeah, i think this is really important about. You know, as an expat global from anywhere, you know you need to pick a place Where maybe people are not gonna be so transient, right? Because, like, for example, my first time living overseas, i lived in Korea. I lived in Andong for, yeah, about two years and what would happen is, you know, i was a teacher and everyone I knew was teachers. So what would happen would be every six months when people's contract like ended, like you know, mass exodus, massive amount of new people, and then you just had to like rebuild your social life every six months. So I had to do that like four times.

Zack Franklin: 23:53

You know where people was, true, you know, because you could go in as short as like a six-month term, so people would like do that Oh, it sounds cool And they would leave, or a year and leave, and so that there's no super consistency in the sort of community. And then, when I came to, like China, i was amazed. You know, you meet people like you or David or anyone that have been here, like you know, since the Big Bang, like forever, and you have, you know, people that are are here other than the pandemic. Now some people have kind of moved around like people stay here and they stay here Usually until they have kids And they find out It's very expensive and so they start looking at other options. Then it's kind of my reason, one of my reasons.

Mike Michelini: 24:41

Yeah, but it's true, i mean, it's also maybe. Yeah, i saw, these days it just seems much more like Transients. Know, of course there's some long-term people, you know, like. I think I like John Cavendish in Vietnam He seems like he's been sticking there and like John Meyer and the others.

Zack Franklin: 25:03

That goes to Vietnam, just gets married and stays there, so I don't know what it is. Haven't been there yet, but You're probably gonna get married. You're gonna stay there.

Mike Michelini: 25:14

That's seems to be what happens to everybody's like it right, a few of those, yes, But I mean It's a, it's also a smaller country. Of course there's many things to do in Thailand, but you know, like you asked where we're from. And then China like China, you could go to Shanghai, beijing. You got to take a flight. Of course you got fly around Thailand too, but it just You have a less like an hour Island.

Zack Franklin: 25:39

Oh, and that's like 30 minutes and you land at the beach or something.

Mike Michelini: 25:43

So yeah, it just seems more true. Yeah, everybody's moving around between countries and borders and immigration. It's a common. Of course they have that in China too, but it's much less of a discussion.

Zack Franklin: 25:54

Mm-hmm, yeah, cool. So Yeah, we talked a lot about the community. You're also doing some business in both countries. You know. You've been checking out factories and working with factories and you know yeah, you know everyone that is also doing more manufacturing, so you're drawing on more of a sample size than just your orders. What, what do you think are some of the differences? China and Thailand, business wise and manufacturing.

Mike Michelini: 26:21

I mean I think you'd agree we've discussed this before. I mean China. Well, you know, just go to Chinatown in your hometown like almost every major city has a Chinatown right and You just see them working their ass off right from like 5 am. I'm taking shrimp off the back of the truck, you know, like they're just bust working their butts off like morning until night, right, but So I guess it's hard to compete with that work ethic anywhere. You know, um, but Thailand is definitely much more Relaxed.

Mike Michelini: 26:57

They got the mangoes and the coconuts. You know, it's true, right, you can just see I can just pick off. I have a mango tree right there. I could probably just eat those all day and, you know, live my life. It's much more like. It's much more like You need to kind of stay on top of them to buy from them. I mean it's. You know we are trying to do a new brand. It's like a dried flowers and We're working hard with the farmers and there's a factory that can help like Consolidate and bundle it and package it. But then the packaging nowhere in Chiang Mai makes this kind of packaging. He's got to get from Bangkok. And Then, you know, i want to get a sample of the production sample. They're like no, you got to order 5,000 pieces And we send it to you. I'm like so I can't see what it's gonna look like Like. Before I ordered 5,000, they send me similar ones. They've taught like about what.

Zack Franklin: 27:59

I want.

Mike Michelini: 27:59

I'm like In China I can get this in like a. Maybe I pay like 50 bucks or 100 bucks, i'll you know, sample fee, but I would get a production sample in like a couple of days, right, like Here's like oh no, and they don't really like care, they don't follow up with you, they don't push like, they don't care, they're like it's not like you buy for me, yeah, yeah and China.

Zack Franklin: 28:25

You say yes to one question and they'll keep going. You know they want to get your order knocked out so they can go on the next thing, but also you know, especially something like Shenzhen.

Zack Franklin: 28:36

Everything is kind of centralized. I mean, even though Shenzhen's huge like I've been to the factories for packaging for China tobacco and all the alcohol here and it's bigger than American cities I mean it's like Nine, it's true massive buildings as big as malls that like I've been through and I'm like what the fuck? This is the biggest packaging I've ever seen.

Mike Michelini: 28:59

Like you guys, a couple more kids here, yeah, but yeah, nothing like that.

Zack Franklin: 29:04

Packaging. You got your electronics markets, you have all the factories, you have all the logistics, like everything one-stop shop. And It's amazing. I mean, you know, at like the top floor of like watch on Bay buildings, now It's just a bunch of people running websites like power adapters, calm, like transistors, calm Whatever and they get an order and they just call the person downstairs and it's shipped out in like 30 minutes it's true everything.

Mike Michelini: 29:34

So yeah, and then, and then, of course, the second step is the supply chain is not as you know. You know it's high, just low volume, right, so there's not as many ships, containers, going as often, you know, yeah, so the things are just all slower. But, like I think I mentioned before, we start recording. But so there's one factory owner, he's actually the son, he's like The son, just like in China There's this next generation of factories that they're They studied in the.

Mike Michelini: 30:04

West, like you asked her Europe, and they came back. So he's one of those super nice guy And he's just saying like he feel me complaining because it's like everything is like I gotta wait, i'm, i got like a line also line here, everybody's in line, so I'm in line with him and you know I Didn't have a tie. assistant Snoke is really great. She works with us full-time, helps with this and tell other things in Thailand, but so she's trying to like talk. you know, and I'm this kind of typical, you know The stereotypical American, this pushy and maybe doesn't understand what's happening. but I'm just like You know, like Can we go faster please? Like is there something I can do to not wait one week every time?

Zack Franklin: 30:49

Yeah, this was super frustrating for me, coming from China, when I you know, pandemic started and I moved to Thailand and like even trying to set up my internet, and they're like, oh, it will be done very fast in two weeks. Yeah, i'm set up here in the net and I'm like no, 30 minutes. And I had to like do a bunch of shit, But like a lot of times that's an.

Zack Franklin: 31:11

American in Asia. You know you get told things like it's impossible. If they say it's impossible, that doesn't mean it's impossible at all. You know it's not like America. You have to always insist on kind of your way and then somehow you kind of meet in the middle and you'll get things done faster. But you know it's always kind of a huge issue and people don't understand how to kind of some of the cultural differences and stuff here. Luckily we've been in both places a long amount of time. We know kind of how it works. But I met some of my friends coming from America to Asia recently And then they just, you see, when you're watching the communication, when they're interacting, like you know, they're just not hearing each other completely, they're just not on the same. So I think it's quite interesting.

Mike Michelini: 32:09

They said to me one of my friend well, i met him when I got here. he's helped me with some product sourcing in 2007 and eight like kind of like I'd already been buying from Alibaba or you know global sources and such remotely, but I was trying to do some custom products and it was slower than then now It wasn't as efficient in China. And he says I was all you know anxious and stressed. And he says there's only three things are going to happen to you. And I can't remember the order. but he says you know you're going to have a breakdown. you know mental breakdown, you're going to leave or you're going to deal with it. You're not going to change it. That was the point, though You're not going to like change it. Yeah, that's what we got to realize. At least, i think I've adjusted to realizing you're not going to like fix the efficiency or change, change it. You got to kind of learn to adapt and to survive, yeah Cool.

Zack Franklin: 33:18

So you know, let's talk a little bit about some of the stuff that you've been up to for a long, long time. So you know, I'm a comparative podcast newbie. Mike has more than 400 episodes of the global from Asia podcast under his belt, which is crazy, absolutely crazy. Mike is a content machine. I mean, we were on I think we were on one of the buses from Hong Kong to China, right?

Mike Michelini: 33:48

Yeah, I remember that.

Zack Franklin: 33:49

Multiple times we've done podcasts. Just on the bus, you know, mike was like hey, let's do one. And whips out the camera and we're like, all right, let's go, you know. So this is the type of consistency and just like the hey, let's do it. That has gotten Mike to 400 episodes. Let's talk a little bit about number one. How do you get there when most people don't make it past nine episodes? That's the statistic. Like 75% of people don't make it past nine episodes. What are some of your strategies for creating content when you're just kind of going about your life? And then what are some of the kind of results from the podcast? you know because you've been doing it for a long time. What do you think about podcasting after having that much experience?

Mike Michelini: 34:44

Sure, great questions. So for the first I think I think it was the first SOP I ever made was for the podcast creation or editing, or the whole production. I think it was like 2013, because I started podcasting 2013. And you know, i was doing a lot of other stuff kind of myself, without SOPs which are standard operating procedures. For those that don't know, it's kind of like explains how you do a certain work process, task, project. So that was the first SOP I made. It was like was that?

Mike Michelini: 35:21

And I made like a content schedule, like it was basically a Google sheet that lists out the shows, the status, you know, if it's recorded or not, if edited, posted, and then try to have a. So also have a format, like I do intro, outro, you know, right before the show, or, like you know, a few days before the show, but of course you can batch, like we're doing. You know, obviously record the interviews. So I try to have a, i try to have a couple of shows up front, so I'm not rushing. And I think another one is I try to put social pressure, like 10am Tuesdays, hong Kong time, but I have gone every other Tuesday Lately, i think since COVID I do it every other week for at least a couple of years now, considering weekly again. But if I were to go back to weekly I would need to have more interviews batched up.

Mike Michelini: 36:16

So basically what I'm saying is have that social pressure, like your guests and not your listeners know you, tuesdays at 10. So we always publish, even now every other Tuesday, 10am Hong Kong time. So there's that pressure And so it's like, yeah, sops, schedules, have a few guests up front, so you're not like that week of the week of. And then if you're, you know, like I I feel like I don't want to apologize to my it's, you know to my audience that I missed one. Of course they're maybe don't even notice or care, but you know I try to put that pressure on myself and also have our team help. So it's like our KPI, like we have people on a team that their KPI is published by 10am Tuesday, hong Kong time. Like I learned that you don't just say do the task, but the results is they publish without hopefully too many mistakes and editing by that time, And so this I don't know if you want to clarify that, or or then the second about the results. You want to ask anything on that?

Zack Franklin: 37:21

or should I go into the results or benefits of doing the podcast and being in the game for that long?

Mike Michelini: 37:29

Yeah, so. So the results are. Of course, there's a selfish benefit as a host. We get to interview, interview people we like to interview or want to interview. Hopefully it should be relevant to the audience and and the topic or the theme of the show, but we can also kind of connect with some some nice cool people. That maybe it's easier to. It's almost like a way to build relationships. You can reach out to somebody in a vitamin rather than just trying to pitch them something you want them to do. You can just. It's a relationship builder with both the the guests as well as the audience. So you know it's kind of a can you get to ask any questions you want to ask, right? So and it it helps you improve your public. Well, it's, of course, not public, but it improves your presentation skills, your preparation skills. I think you know, with AI and all this stuff now I like this quote I saw somewhere, maybe on Twitter The value is not in the answer. The value isn't asking the right questions. I think knowing what questions to ask is a valuable skill. With prompts on AI or Google search answers, alexa answers, the answers are there. You got to know what to ask. So I think you know, we get this skill of like what questions to ask and I think that's valuable skill And, of course, the results are building an audience or building relationships.

Mike Michelini: 38:53

I've made friends from people that listen to the show. They'll reach out, you know, hopefully come to the summit or meet up in a meet up and change my, or reach out online and, you know, thank me and say that they're enjoying it And they've been listening to me. And they sometimes even reference certain guests or shows or topics. You know, like one of my, one of my more popular ones, was when I interviewed my uncle and my uncle, gary, is kind of that blue collar mechanic kind of worker that always got outsourced to Asia. You know, like he was the guy that was like the middle class, like the Donald Trump supporter people that all lost their jobs to, you know, india or you know China or Asia with globalization and are kind of upset about globalization gutting the American middle class.

Mike Michelini: 39:47

People like that one Yeah, it was like a raw one, like he never knew I did, he didn't know I did a podcast. You know, even though the podcast was, i just invited him on and asked him these questions and he's going on and on about. You know that's kind of like a little conspiracy theory or you know political stuff, but people have been talking about that one because it's so raw and real, you know, and that Uncle Gary know the media doesn't care about Uncle Gary, the politicians don't care about Uncle Gary. I feel bad for Gary. You know he's been unemployed a long time. On and off He's always trying to get like some kind of truck driving job or a mechanic job, machine shop job, like something like this. He's always, you know, they're always just closing or laying off. It's just really depressing And people like that show, like it was, that's like that was four or five. I should reach out to him again but I think he wants to come back more.

Zack Franklin: 40:42

That would be a great idea for a show. I mean like just put in these, these opposite worlds together, like putting Chinese Amazon sellers and American Amazon sellers, like the same broadcast. Yeah, they are kind of different worlds are putting you know blue colors with like Filipino VAs and having them talk or like even Filipino VAs versus India VAs and having them talk.

Zack Franklin: 41:12

Yeah, it could be super good idea for some like BuzzFeed style video. That would be pretty crazy. Yeah, so I notice you do a couple things for kind of keeping accountable. I mean, obviously the biggest thing you have keeping you accountable is your wife and your kids and all of this, which are great and and really do support you. And every time you're also posting here's what I'm doing this week, here's the plans, here's the video. I still read those every week. See what it's up to. I love that. You know publish that.

Zack Franklin: 41:51

So tell us a little bit about that, because you don't. You don't miss like you don't miss a week. I've never seen you you miss a deadline you set for yourself which is an incredibly rare thing for 99% of people Like when you say I'm going to publish this at 10am on Tuesday, you do. When you say this is going to be up by this day. It always is, and you always have your here's what's what's going on this week. So tell us a little bit about that. Do you think that this is is really beneficial? You know how you put accountability into keeping you consistent.

Mike Michelini: 42:32

Sure, i guess my one trade off is sometimes the quality. My quality is. Feedback is like I get it out, like even when I was in school I got teachers somewhat weren't happy with me because I would. I would do stuff to get it done, of course, if I'm, if I'm interested in it. But you know that's maybe one of my trade offs is I do whatever it takes to get done and sometimes it's not perfect, but I think it's better than being a perfectionist. Actually, we're some conversation about this recently about perfectionist. To be 100% perfect is impossible. So a lot of times people don't do it or don't consistently do it because they want the quality to be so perfect or to their standard or what they think that somebody that's judging them will think, you know, like there was Dan Norris He's not as active online lately.

Mike Michelini: 43:18

I think you know him in Australia. He did the content machine book. He did He's got brewery now He also did WP curve that sold to go daddy. But he also kind of inspired me with that book. I mean I was already doing content before.

Mike Michelini: 43:35

But it's also like not being so. What's that called self worried? what other people think self There's a word for that like self conscious, like, of course, it took me time even to make a text blog. I think my first Mike's blog blog was in 2006 or seven, and I was scared to even publish a text blog, because people are going to read it. What were they going to think about me, or what were they going to know about me, or what we're going to say about me, or we're going to comment about same with audio and now video or in live. And you know, you know, i guess he's got to get used to that, to put content out there. But also not worry, you know. So I try to make it. So for the one minute video. I try to make that one two minutes max And I call it. Then. It's actually based on Derek Sivers. I heard him on it. I think it was a Pat Flynn podcast. He hasn't. I think he still has it up now now nowcom. And well, he didn't say do a video, but he's. He also didn't even say do a weekly, but he was just saying to have a par on your blog, that's slash. Now just just call it your now page, not your about page, not your contact page. It's different. It's what is you're doing now.

Mike Michelini: 44:50

So for a long time it was just text only And I don't know if it was, it wasn't weekly and he never says to do it weekly. But he says whenever you start working on something new, you just update it now So people know what you're working on now. And then you know me I like to key, i don't want to delete the old one, i want to keep you know. So I started kind of like adding to it Maybe it was 2016 or 17 started And then I started pushing down the bottom the old stuff but the new stuff that start making like a dedicated blog category. And then it was. But I also do it for the team. So I think I learned this from another, tim Conley, and he says have a weekly message letter to your team, because I learned some of my team members didn't know what the company was doing And it wasn't there, felt like outside.

Mike Michelini: 45:34

So there's actually two sections of the. Now there's Mike was Mike's up to now and then there's my like company week plan And I used to be private, honestly, or I used to kind of delete some of it, but lately I just share it almost the same. So I'm writing that anyway. So might as well make it kind of public for those curious. So the now, now.

Mike Michelini: 45:54

Now I try to I turn into a video, i don't know when, a couple of years ago, and I was doing it weekly anyway. So I made a video because I know video content is more popular and I try to do it on Sunday morning It's, you know, i tell my wife family, like Sunday morning is my planning day or planning morning, you know, at least a couple hours. Of course I do my writing, i do my pretty quick video And yeah, i mean I even from traveling I do it. Maybe it's not as good quality because it's on my phone or speaker, but basically it's. It's helped, like I, it's definitely like I'm happy to know you actually check out a week. I know my I send it to for my parents, but my I was doing for my team.

Mike Michelini: 46:37

I've also noticed new recruits that are applying. Maybe check, find my blog or my podcast and and and refer to it. So it it's also part of this whole building in public. Like I like to be somewhat transparent And it helps because people I think you all know me, i'm not I don't like to ask people for stuff. I don't like to like Sell, i have an issue about that. So I feel, if I'm putting stuff out there and people see it and are interested, whether to you know buy or sign up or maybe come to the summit or you know or work for us or You know, give feedback or just know what they're doing, it's just like a passive way for me to do it and I just put it in my machine like that machine right and But yeah, i mean, that's There's, you know, i think that's a great answer.

Zack Franklin: 47:33

Yeah, i mean I love Derek Sivers. I just been watching a ton of his stuff over the years and even like his Ted talk on building a community, i think is is probably or how to build a movement in three minutes. I send this to everyone that wants to do social media stuff, because this is how you do it, this is how you build a community. I mean it's like this one guy just dancing like crazy on a hill.

Zack Franklin: 48:03

But then someone else comes up and starts dancing with him, and then a third person, and then everybody and That it's. You've got to show the followers how to follow. So, like even in my kind of newer we chat groups for the events I'm like here's how to support me and, honestly, for different Facebook groups or stuff like that, i'll even message friends Hey, can you do a post in here like this show people how to Interact with your content.

Zack Franklin: 48:32

Or like if you're doing an ad, you need to kind of make sure the first ten comments like are showing people how to comment on that ad or how to interact with it And yeah, like such a huge thing for social media, because no one wants to be the first person to comment on anything, and so if you show or the first people to respond in the group chat, the first person do whatever. So you just show people how you want to react and you get more and more people joining it Yeah, I gotta work on my engagement as my.

Mike Michelini: 49:04

That's one of my things. Yeah, I'm not like getting. I'm not asking for engagements.

Zack Franklin: 49:12

Yeah and. I think that that's something not a lot of people do, because I mean, people are scared of rejection or they think Yeah, i mean, that's also Yeah but I think that it has over years.

Mike Michelini: 49:25

Yeah, I don't know.

Zack Franklin: 49:28

Epidemic of we chat trolls. I don't know if you notice, but me and Luciano have had to keep kicking people out of groups Because people come in and they'll actually like just post just terrible pictures and shit. I think we're somehow. Rqr codes get linked big through like whatever channel into some like nationalist group or like Just some troll group, and then they just join through the bar code. Go nuts. But that's one of the things that happens when you kind of manage a space, some kind of community You know you do need to use.

Zack Franklin: 50:02

Curation. You are responsible for it, and you got to figure out how to make it a Space that people want to engage with and, you know, kick people out of there. They're not doing what needs to be done. Yeah, cool. So, yeah, there's a lot more to talk about, so at some point we'll have to have you on again, mike, but I think You got a meeting coming out. So, yeah, how should people get in touch with you? How should they work with you? How should they buy cross-border summit tickets so they can hang out with us in Chiang Mai in November?

Mike Michelini: 50:40

Sure, so You know, i kind of have two main buckets, like Mike's blog, calm, like we were mentioned, was that's kind of like more family Personal stuff with the we at least a weekly blog, but sometimes the video blogs haven't done as much lately. So if you're using a personal stuff, mike's blog and The business blog podcast that we mentioned 400 plus shows on Asia business. Each e-commerce trade is global from Asia calm. So I think those we both have different contact pages too. And and then, yeah, of course, cross-border summits are big focus. You know it's five months away, almost exactly right now and cross-border summit comm, which is a CRO SS border Some people say a border with me. We have actually both misspellings be or d er summit calm and You'll click to the 2023 page. We keep all the archive pages to Zach so you can see your. You see the previous years and There's application.

Mike Michelini: 51:42

So so when they're applying is how did they hear about it? say, zach Franklin, or is that Franklin? show and we'll take care of you. And and Note that with, because we do want quality people there's, you know. It's also not meant to be a beginner one, if you I Guess you can go, but we don't want people's, some people don't. I don't like you know.

Zack Franklin: 52:06

Your content and your community in general is that you attract people that are Doing it. You know you are not beginner focused. I think we both know like for example, you look at like all the Chinese Education stuff out there, like learning Chinese language or any language, 90% of the content is for the beginner. You know.

Zack Franklin: 52:29

Yeah like 7.5% is for intermediate and then there's basically nothing out there for the advanced People. Yeah, both you and me, we could probably make more money focusing on people. How do I sell on Amazon? What's what's this? but you know, we like Talking to the people that we like, which is the people that are actually doing the stuff. You know a lot of people have come me over the years Why don't you go guru? You're so good at this and this and this and this. Yeah, and a lot of it. I don't want to do this like super beginner level. What is an ace in? how do you ship your stuff to FBA? You know what's this, what's that, and so I like, if you do really want to take your stuff to the next level, content-length mics is really really good because it's for people that are in the trenches building stuff, doing stuff, and it's great. I mean, check out. You know you got some of the testimonials on the page and working now, cool, see, you need a speaker page on here.

Mike Michelini: 53:38

Faa or global or cross-border summit on the cross-border summit Technically. Cross-border summitcom. We make a sub domain now. We did that over COVID, so we have 20. Oh, i see that old ones. You can just change the year on the sub domain, if you know what I'm talking about Yeah Killer speakers.

Zack Franklin: 54:03

so Wilson, mike and I just visited Wilson's company on Guangzhou.

Mike Michelini: 54:08

He's great.

Zack Franklin: 54:09

He is absolutely killing it. A big Chinese seller that you would want to hear from. Patrick runs one of the biggest like Chinese e-commerce companies in China. He's very low-key But he is Super smart. I've been to his company, visited him, have tea, the whole deal. Zach Benson if you want to do any sort of Instagram thing, this is the guy, howard Tai, another good friend of mine, who was just in Chenjian a couple weeks ago. You know he runs Massive, really good masterminds for Amazon and he's a hard guy to get a contact with if you're not at a meetup like this. David has been absolutely like killing it in Thailand with all of his agency stuff, dj stuff, you know, airbnb stuff. So yeah, this is already a really good lineup. Chris Rawlings is great. I loved his new guide on like CTR for Amazon sellers.

Mike Michelini: 55:11

So he's always got good, good concepts and strategies Yeah.

Zack Franklin: 55:18

Let me see if you have me scheduled yet Should be on there. We put a poster up for you too. Yeah, you can. You can put me for the afternoon.

Mike Michelini: 55:27

After I know you're afternoon guy Sure, sure Yeah.

Zack Franklin: 55:32

All right, I'm not so everyone. I think this was a great episode well, yeah.

Zack Franklin: 55:39

I really I've been on a couple of yours and, like I said, podcasts are a great way to kind of catch up with your friends. Well, also, you know I hope everyone found this really useful about everything from being consistent, handling multiple projects if you're picking between China and Thailand And if you're looking for really good events to go to later on in the year. I'm super excited for the cross-border summit. Thanks, buddy. So that's it. Thanks for coming on the show, mike, and for everyone. Whenever I do the next one Awesome.